The following conversation was with chat gpt as I am playing around with ideas for fan fictions..
My game of thrones theory First what is the known lore on the white walkers
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
The White Walkers, or the Others (as they’re called in the books), are an ancient, supernatural race in Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire. Their origins, abilities, and motivations remain somewhat mysterious, but here’s what we know from the lore:
Origins
- Created thousands of years ago during the Age of Heroes, long before the events of the series.
- According to Game of Thrones (show canon), the Children of the Forest created them to fight against the First Men by turning a human (possibly a Stark ancestor) into the Night King using dragonglass magic.
- In the books, their origins are much less clear, with myths suggesting they come from the Lands of Always Winter beyond the Wall.
The Long Night
- The first major White Walker invasion occurred during the Long Night, a legendary winter that lasted a generation.
- They led an army of the dead and nearly destroyed humanity before being defeated.
- The Last Hero (in Westerosi legend) or Azor Ahai (in Essosi prophecy) supposedly played a role in stopping them.
- The Night’s Watch and the Bran the Builder (Stark ancestor) built the Wall to keep them out, with the help of the Children of the Forest.
Powers & Abilities
- Control over ice and cold: Wherever they go, unnatural cold follows.
- Raise the dead: They reanimate corpses into wights, who fight for them.
- Ice weapons: Their swords and spears can shatter steel.
- Immune to most weapons: They can only be killed by dragonglass (obsidian) and Valyrian steel. Fire harms wights but not necessarily White Walkers.
- Mysterious magic: In the show, the Night King creates more White Walkers by touching babies (like Craster’s sons), but this isn’t confirmed in the books.
The Night King (Show Only)
- In Game of Thrones, the Night King is the leader of the White Walkers, created by the Children of the Forest.
- He has unique abilities, such as destroying the Wall and wounding dragons.
- In the books, there is no Night King (only a Night’s Watch legend about a “Night’s King,” a human who supposedly ruled alongside a female White Walker).
Theories & Mysteries
- Why did they return? No clear reason is given, but many speculate they were always waiting for something or someone (like Bran or Daenerys).
- What do they want? In the show, they seem to want total destruction, but in the books, they may have more complex motives.
- Are they tied to Azor Ahai’s prophecy? Some believe they are linked to the prophecy of the Prince That Was Promised.
- Are White Walkers intelligent? In the show, the Night King displays some strategy, but in the books, they remain enigmatic.
What’s your theory?
4o
You said:
Others (Redirected from White walkers) The Others, by John Picacio © For the god also called “the Other”, see Great Other. The Others, also known as white walkers,[1] cold gods,[2] white shadows,[2] and cold shadows,[3] are a species of humanoid beings that exist in the north beyond the Wall. As they have not been seen for six to eight thousand years, they are considered to be extinct. Contents 1 Appearance and Characteristics 2 History 3 Recent Events 3.1 A Game of Thrones 3.2 A Clash of Kings 3.3 A Storm of Swords 3.4 A Feast for Crows 3.5 A Dance with Dragons 4 Game of Thrones 5 Quotes 6 Behind the Scenes 7 References Appearance and Characteristics See also: Images of the Others The Others are tall and gaunt, with flesh pale as milk.[4] They have cold blue eyes that have been described as burning like ice,[4] or being as bright as blue stars.[2] Others have pale blue blood and shiny bones like milkglass.[3] According to George R. R. Martin, the Others “are strange, beautiful… think, oh… the Sidhe made of ice, something like that… a different sort of life… inhuman, elegant, dangerous.”[5] Further, although Old Nan describes the Others as “dead things”,[6] Martin has stated that the Others are not dead.[5] However, the Night’s King’s queen, presumably an Other due to her blue eyes and pale skin, is described as a “corpse queen” on account of her white, cold skin.[7][8] Blue-eyed Other gripping the pommel of a crystal sword, by Marc Simonetti © The Others wear delicate, reflective, camouflaging armor that shifts in color with every step.[4] According to comic book artist Tommy Patterson, Martin told him that “the reflective, camouflaging armor” is able to pick up “the images of the things around it like a clear, still pond.”[5] The Others appear to be superior swordsmen, wielding thin crystal swords.[4] The pale swords are extremely sharp, capable of moving through ringmail as if it is silk.[4] The swords are alive with moonlight and have a faint blue glow to them.[4][3] When the sword touches a steel blade, only a high, thin sound, similar to an animal screaming in pain, can be heard instead of the sound of metal on metal.[4] When the blades brush the flames of a torch, a screech as sharp as a needle can be heard.[3] When asked what substance the swords of the Others are made from, Martin answered “Ice. But not like regular old ice. The Others can do things with ice that we can’t imagine and make substances of it.”[9] The blades the Others use seem to be rather cold; They are able to cover a metal blade in frost, and shatter a steel blade.[4][10] The Others are capable of resurrecting dead men or creatures as wights.[11] Only burning the bodies of the deceased can prevent the Others from resurrecting them.[10] Martin has refused to answer whether or not the Others control these resurrected people and animals in the same way a warg or skinchanger can control an animal.[12] There are tales of Others riding the corpses of dead animals such as bears, direwolves, mammoths, and horses.[10] Some tales also speak of Others riding giant ice spiders.[10] The Others go lightly on the snow and leave no prints to mark their passage.[3][13] Their movements can be lightning quick and graceful.[3] Extreme cold accompanies them,[4][3] but it is unknown whether the Others only come when it is so cold, or whether they bring the cold with them.[14][10] White mist also rises when they are near.[15] They might appear during snowstorms or mist, and melt away when the skies clear.[10] They hide from the light of the sun and emerge at night;[10][16][15] although once again some stories claim that their coming brings the night.[10] They are said also hate iron and fire.[6] The language the Others speak is unknown, but has been described as sounding like “the cracking of ice on a winter lake”, and their laughter as being as sharp as icicles.[4] According to Old Nan, the Others hate “every creature with hot blood in its veins”.[6] Stannis Baratheon calls them “demons made of ice and snow and cold”.[17] Melisandre, a red priestess, believes that the Others are the “cold children” of the Great Other,[17] allegedly an evil god of darkness, cold, and death who wages eternal war against R’hllor.[18] According to Patterson, “[Martin] spoke a lot about what [the Others] were not, but what they were was harder to put into words.”[5] The free folk believe the Others and their wights can smell life, or rather its warmth.[19] According to the stories of Old Nan, the free folk give the women they steal from the Seven Kingdoms to the Others, and they laid with the Others during the Long Night to birth half-human children.[20] According to his wives, Craster leaves his sons for the Others, whom he calls “the gods”, come the “white cold”, and, when he does not have any sons to give, gives them sheep.[2] Craster’s wives believe that Craster’s sons become Others as well.[14] Craster calls himself a godly man, and as such believes he does not have to fear any attacks from the Others or their wights.[14] The Others have a few known weaknesses that are recorded in ancient texts. One is obsidian,[10] otherwise called dragonglass[21] or “frozen fire”.[17] Ancient texts also record a weakness to “dragonsteel”,[10] which some think may be Valyrian steel.[10] When asked about the ability of Valyrian steel to kill an Other, Martin replied that “the Night’s Watch would like to know as well”.[22] Fire is known to dismay the Others.[10] Mance Rayder and his wife Dalla believe that the Wall prevents the Others from crossing into the Seven Kingdoms.[23] History See also: Long Night and Night’s Watch White walker by Rene Aigner © According to legend, the Others came from the Lands of Always Winter six or eight thousand years ago, and brought with them cold and darkness that lasted a generation: the Long Night. They resurrected dead men and animals to serve them.[6] In the Battle for the Dawn, they were finally defeated, by the first men of the Night’s Watch and the children of the forest, an alliance made possible by the last hero.[24][8] When asked whether there was a closer relationship between the Others and the children of the forest than there thus far has seemed to be, Martin replied that it was possible, and that the topic would be explored later on in the story.[25] In some stories from the Further East of Essos, it is believed that the Long Night was ended through the leadership of Azor Ahai, who wielded Lightbringer.[26] The Night’s King, the thirteenth Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, is said to have married a woman with pale skin and blue eyes, matching the description of the Others. Reportedly, she was a sorceress. He brought her to the Nightfort, where he proclaimed himself king and her his queen, and bound his Sworn Brothers in the Night’s Watch to his will. After a thirteen-year reign, he was defeated by Brandon the Breaker, King of Winter, and Joramun, King-Beyond-the-Wall, after which it was discovered that he had been sacrificing to the Others.[7][8] In his Lies of the Ancients, Archmaester Fomas speculates that the Others were a tribe of the First Men who had been living in the far north. Fomas suggests that the Long Night pressured these men, the ancestors of the current wildlings, to migrate south. Over the years, they became more and more monstrous in the telling of the tales about them, because the Night’s Watch and the Starks wanted to seem heroic. However, Lies of the Ancients is little regarded nowadays, as it contains erroneous claims about Valyria, the Reach, and the westerlands.[24] The Wall was built to protect the people of the realms in Westeros from the threats of the north,[8] specifically the Others.[27] However, the Others have not been seen since the Long Night ended, and are now regarded as nothing more than fairy tales to frighten the little children.[3] Some people believe they never existed at all.[28] They are often mentioned in curses, such as “The Others take his eyes.”[20] Recent Events A Game of Thrones Ser Waymar Royce discovers the Others, by Amok © During a ranging beyond the Wall, Ser Waymar Royce is confronted by a group of at least five Others who speak an icy language. Waymar duels one of the Others, but the ranger is blinded when his sword shatters. The laughing group butchers Waymar, who then rises as a wight to slay Will.[4] Lord Commander Jeor Mormont, in conversation with Tyrion Lannister at Castle Black, refers to white walkers being glimpsed by fisherfolk on the shore near Eastwatch-by-the-Sea. Tyrion discounts them, however, by mentioning mythical merlings.[29] Old Nan tells Bran Stark about the Long Night, when white walkers moved through woods.[6] Traveling in the wolfswood, Bran encounters six wildlings and deserters from the Night’s Watch, who discuss whether to take the boy hostage and return north to sell him to Mance Rayder, the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Out of fear for encountering the white walkers, one of the men decides not to do so.[30] A Clash of Kings At Craster’s Keep, Gilly tells Jon Snow that Craster gives up his infant sons to the cold gods; Jon determines she is speaking of the Others.[2] A Storm of Swords Samwell Tarly with an obsidian dagger, by Amok © Encamped at the Fist of the First Men, the Night’s Watch hear three horn blasts signifying Others. The brothers are then attacked by wights in the fight at the Fist.[31][3] While the survivors retreat through the haunted forest back to Craster’s Keep, an Other knocks away Grenn’s torch and kills Small Paul. Samwell Tarly stabs it in the throat with a dragonglass dagger, however, and Sam hears a sound similar to the cracking of ice beneath one’s foot. The Other’s armor, flesh, and bones melt away as a result, dissolving away until nothing remains.[3] [3] Sam is dubbed Sam the Slayer, which he finds mocking.[14][32] During the mutiny at Craster’s Keep, one of Craster’s wives warns Sam that Craster’s sons will soon arrive for Gilly’s newborn boy.[14] At the parley during the battle beneath the Wall, Mance Rayder reveals to Jon that he is trying to lead the free folk south of the Wall to protect them from the Others and their wights.[23] A Feast for Crows Sam finds limited information about the Others while researching in the library of Castle Black.[10] A Dance with Dragons Jon Snow, now the Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, and Tormund discuss their common foe, the Others, when Tormund’s four thousand wildlings cross the Wall. Jon asks if the Others troubled the wildlings on their march to the Wall, and Tormund informs him that the Others had been with them all the way, though they never attacked the free folk in force.[15] Game of Thrones White Walker as depicted in Game of Thrones There are notable differences between the Others in the novels and HBO’s television adaptation, Game of Thrones. In the television adaptation, the Others are known only as White Walkers. In the audio commentary for “Winter Is Coming”, producers David Benioff and D. B. Weiss explained that the change was made to avoid confusion that may arise between references to the race known as the Others and “others” meaning other groups or people within the show. Additionally, George R. R. Martin has stated that the change was decided upon early in the development process to avoid confusion with the Others from ABC’s show Lost, the mysterious inhabitants of the island on which that show mostly takes place.[33] Unlike the strange beauty Martin describes them as having in the book series, the White Walkers of Game of Thrones are depicted with frightening, emaciated appearances. In Valar Morghulis, the tenth and final episode of the second season, Others appear looking like undead men without skin, their bones and muscles white from ice and snow. Their eyes are bright blue. They wear little armor and no camouflage.[34] In “Oathkeeper”, several White Walkers appear dressed all in black.[35] The language spoken by the Others, unnamed in the book series, is called Skroth in the TV series.[36][37] Although it was created for the first episode of Season 1 by David J. Peterson, it was eventually not used. The language has been described to sound “ice-cracking” and “pretty scratchy”.[36][37] The leader of the White Walkers is known as the Night King in Game of Thrones. He is first seen in “Oathkeeper”, transforming Craster’s last son,[35] and next in the Season 5 episode “Hardhome”. He differs in appearance by having a ring of small icy horns atop his skull that form a natural crown.[38] The synopsis for “Oathkeeper” on the HBO Viewer’s Guide originally listed this specific character as the Night’s King, a legendary figure that has been mentioned a few times in the novels, though this was later removed. It is unknown whether this was due to an error in identification or the fact that this would be a major spoiler. While in the novels, the backstory of the Others has barely been revealed, the Season 6 episode “The Door” has Bran Stark seeing a vision of the children of the forest creating an Other from a captured First Man, in an attempt to create a defense against the invasion of the First Men.[39] Quotes An Other by TheMico © The Other said something in a language that Will did not know; his voice was like the cracking of ice on a winter lake, and the words were mocking.[40] —thoughts of Will The Others are as dead as the children of the forest, gone eight thousand years. Maester Luwin will tell you they never lived at all. No living man has ever seen one.[41] —Eddard Stark to Catelyn Stark If the Others ever come for us, I pray they have archers, because you lot are fit for nothing more than arrow fodder.[42] —Alliser Thorne to Night’s Watch recruits The Others are only a story, a tale to make children shiver. If they ever lived at all, they are gone eight thousand years.[11] —thoughts of Jon Snow The cold gods. The ones in the night. The white shadows.[2] —Gilly to Jon Snow The white walkers of the wood, the cold shadows, the monsters of the tales that made him squeak and tremble as a boy, riding their giant ice-spiders, hungry for blood …[3] —thoughts of Samwell Tarly A godly man got no cause to fear such. I said as much to that Mance Rayder once, when he come sniffing round. He never listened, no more’n you crows with your swords and your bloody fires. That won’t help you none when the white cold comes. Only the gods will help you then. You best get right with the gods.[14] —Craster to the Night’s Watch Melisandre: Necromancy animates these wights, yet they are still only dead flesh. Steel and fire will serve for them. The ones you call the Others are something more. Stannis: Demons made of snow and ice and cold. The ancient enemy. The only enemy that matters.[17] —Melisandre and Stannis Baratheon to Samwell Tarly They’re never far, you know. They won’t come out by day, not when that old sun’s shining, but don’t think that means they went away. Shadows never go away. Might be you don’t see them, but they’re always clinging to your heels.[15] —Tormund to Jon Snow Behind the Scenes In an early draft of A Storm of Swords, Mance Rayder describes the Others as “no men of women born.”[43]
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
That’s a thorough compilation of the known lore on the Others (White Walkers) from the books and how they differ from the show’s interpretation. What’s your theory about them?
4o
You said:
who is the corpse queen in game of thrones lore
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
The Corpse Queen is a mysterious figure from Westerosi legend, closely tied to the story of the Night’s King, the 13th Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch.
The Legend of the Corpse Queen
According to tales passed down in the North, the Night’s King fell in love with a woman “with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars.” Some claim she was one of the Others (White Walkers) or a powerful sorceress. He took her as his queen and together, they ruled the Nightfort (the oldest Night’s Watch stronghold on the Wall).
During his reign, the Night’s King is said to have:
- Declared himself king and her his queen.
- Bound his brothers in the Night’s Watch to his will through dark sorcery.
- Offered sacrifices to the Others, possibly giving them newborn children much like Craster did.
- Ruled for thirteen years before being overthrown by Brandon the Breaker (King in the North) and Joramun (King-Beyond-the-Wall), after which all records of his name were erased.
Is the Corpse Queen an Other?
There are strong hints that she may have been:
- Her description (pale white skin, glowing blue eyes) matches that of the Others.
- The Others are rumored to have taken human women in the past, as told by Old Nan.
- Craster’s sacrifices imply a possible transformation process, meaning that human children might be turned into Others.
Does She Have Any Connection to the Modern Story?
The books haven’t explicitly confirmed her role, but some fans speculate:
- The White Walkers were not just mindless ice demons but had a society, and she was their queen.
- The Night King in the HBO show (who doesn’t exist in the books) might have been inspired by the Night’s King legend.
- The return of the Others in the books could mean we will finally learn more about their rulers, if they have any.
- Craster’s sons being taken suggests the Others may still be creating new leaders, possibly a new Corpse Queen.
What’s your take on her? Do you think she could return in the books, or was she just part of the lost history?
4o
You said:
iI the books where the dead raised
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Yes, in A Song of Ice and Fire, the dead are raised through two main supernatural forces: the Others (White Walkers) and R’hllor’s followers (fire magic).
1. The Others (White Walkers) and Their Wights
The Others, or White Walkers, have the power to reanimate corpses into undead servants known as wights.
- Wights are not truly resurrected; they are animated corpses controlled by the Others.
- They retain no memory of their past lives and exist only to kill and spread the Others’ influence.
- Wights can be made from both humans and animals, as seen with undead horses and even a bear.
- They are weak to fire and dragonglass obsidian (which destroys the magic animating them).
Notable instances of wights in the books:
- Waymar Royce’s death (A Game of Thrones Prologue): The Others kill the Night’s Watch ranger and possibly raise him.
- Othor and Jafer Flowers (A Game of Thrones): Their corpses return to Castle Black and rise, attempting to kill Lord Commander Mormont.
- The Battle of the Fist of the First Men (A Storm of Swords): The Others raise the dead of the Night’s Watch after the battle.
- Hardhome (mentioned in A Dance with Dragons): A great calamity happens, likely involving the Others raising an army of dead wildlings.
2. Fire Resurrection (R’hllor’s Magic)
Unlike the Others’ reanimation, R’hllor’s priests can bring people back to life, though with some side effects.
- Those resurrected by fire magic retain their memories and personalities, but they change in some way.
- They lose pieces of themselves—memories fade, emotions dull, and their bodies do not heal properly.
Notable characters resurrected by R’hllor’s magic:
- Beric Dondarrion (resurrected multiple times by Thoros of Myr). Each time he comes back, he loses more of his memories.
- Catelyn Stark (Lady Stoneheart): After her brutal death at the Red Wedding, Beric sacrifices himself to bring her back. She returns as a vengeful, almost inhuman figure, unable to speak properly and obsessed with revenge.
- (Possibly) Jon Snow: His death at the end of A Dance with Dragons leaves the strong possibility that Melisandre will resurrect him.
3. Other Possible Forms of Undeath
- The Undying of Qarth (A Clash of Kings) – Strange, possibly undead sorcerers who try to trap Daenerys in a vision.
- Coldhands (A Storm of Swords) – A mysterious figure who appears undead but is unlike wights. He retains his intelligence and fights against the Others. Some theories suggest he was once a Brother of the Night’s Watch.
- Euron Greyjoy’s Dark Magic (A Feast for Crows / A Dance with Dragons) – There are hints that Euron has been experimenting with dark sorcery, possibly related to necromancy.
The Big Question: How Will the Dead Play Into the Endgame?
- The Others raising massive armies of the dead is a major apocalyptic threat.
- R’hllor’s magic may be crucial in countering this force.
- Jon Snow’s possible resurrection could make him a key figure in this battle.
How do you think George R.R. Martin will handle the final confrontation between these forces?
what is warg in game of thrones cannon
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
In A Song of Ice and Fire and Game of Thrones canon, a warg is a person with the ability to enter the mind of an animal and control it. This is a form of skinchanging, but the term “warg” is most commonly used in reference to those who bond with wolves.
1. Warging vs. Skinchanging
- Wargs are skinchangers who bond specifically with wolves or direwolves.
- Skinchangers can enter and control other animals, such as birds, bears, or even big cats.
- All wargs are skinchangers, but not all skinchangers are wargs.
2. Notable Wargs & Skinchangers in the Books
Bran Stark
- The most powerful warg in the story.
- Can warg into Summer, his direwolf.
- He also has “greenseer” abilities, allowing him to see through the eyes of the weirwood trees and access the past.
- He can also warg into Hodor, controlling his body—a rare and extremely difficult feat.
Jon Snow
- Has warging abilities but is not as skilled as Bran.
- Often sees through the eyes of Ghost, his direwolf, especially in dreams.
- It is heavily implied that after his death at the end of A Dance with Dragons, he temporarily wargs into Ghost.
Arya Stark
- Untrained but occasionally wargs into Nymeria, her direwolf, in her dreams.
- Also, unknowingly wargs into a cat while training with the Faceless Men.
- Some theories suggest she may warg more consciously later in the series.
Varamyr Sixskins
- A wildling skinchanger with six animal companions, including a wolf, a bear, and an eagle.
- He teaches that powerful wargs can still live inside their animals after death (which may have big implications for Jon Snow).
- Before dying, he tries to take over a human body but fails, proving how difficult that is.
3. How Does Warging Work?
- Some people are born with the ability, though it can be trained.
- A strong bond between a warg and their animal makes the connection easier.
- Prolonged warging changes the person—they start to take on the instincts of the animal.
- If a warg dies while inside their animal, they may live on inside the beast permanently.
4. Theories & Possible Future Developments
- Jon Snow’s Death & Resurrection: Many believe Jon warged into Ghost before dying, which could impact how he comes back.
- Arya’s Warging Potential: Since she has accessed animals’ minds, she might develop this skill further.
- Bran’s Powers Growing: With both warging and greenseeing abilities, Bran could become one of the most powerful figures in Westeros.
5. Wargs vs. the Others
- The Others (White Walkers) are never shown warging, but they do have a similar ability to control wights.
- There’s speculation that the Night’s King (in the show) had a supernatural connection to his army, much like a warg does.
- Some believe that warging might play a role in fighting the Others, possibly through Jon, Bran, or even the direwolves.
Warging is one of the most unique and powerful abilities in the Game of Thrones universe. What do you think will happen with Jon’s warging in The Winds of Winter?
4o
You said:
ok now who was the wildling crastor I think who sacrificed children to the knight king
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
You’re thinking of Craster, the wildling who lived beyond the Wall and sacrificed his sons to the White Walkers. Here’s a breakdown of who he was and what he did:
Who Was Craster?
- A wildling who lived in a keep called Craster’s Keep, north of the Wall.
- Known for marrying his own daughters and forcing them to bear his children.
- All male children were sacrificed to the White Walkers.
- He was not liked by the Night’s Watch but allowed them to stay at his keep in exchange for supplies.
Craster’s Sacrifices to the White Walkers
- Whenever one of his wives bore a son, he would leave the baby in the woods as an offering.
- The White Walkers took these infants, likely turning them into new White Walkers (as seen in the show).
- In A Song of Ice and Fire, the books don’t explicitly show what happens to the babies, but it’s heavily implied they are taken and transformed.
Craster’s Fate
- While hosting a Night’s Watch expedition led by Lord Commander Jeor Mormont, tensions grew.
- After food ran low and Craster mocked the men, a mutiny broke out.
- He was killed by members of the Night’s Watch, who then took over his keep.
- This same mutiny led to the murder of Jeor Mormont, the Lord Commander.
Craster’s Role in the White Walkers’ Plans
- His sacrifices may have helped sustain the White Walkers’ numbers.
- Some theories suggest Craster had a deal with them, possibly in exchange for safety.
- It is unknown if there were other wildlings doing the same or if Craster was unique in his arrangement.
In the TV show, the Night King is shown physically transforming Craster’s sons into White Walkers, but this is not confirmed in the books (yet). What do you think—was Craster just a coward making deals, or did he have a bigger role in the White Walkers’ rise?
4o
You said:
the theory… is simple the night king is a warg.. but the corpse queen and the others are a seperate species.. like the valyrians where initially sheep herders.. but changed over time dealing with the dragons.. a subspecies that evolved.. as their are ice dragons… and they do raise the dead as additional foot soldiers..
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
That’s an interesting take on the Night King and the Others! Your theory suggests:
- The Night King Was a Warg – Meaning he had the ability to enter and control other beings, possibly even the White Walkers or their mounts (like ice dragons).
- The Others (White Walkers) Are a Separate Species – Instead of being former humans turned into White Walkers (as seen in the show), they might be an ancient race that evolved separately, much like how the Valyrians changed over time with their connection to dragons.
- The Corpse Queen Is Key – If she exists, she could be the original progenitor of the Others, similar to how the Valyrian bloodlines intertwined with dragons, creating a distinct subspecies.
- Ice Dragons Exist in the Lore – Suggesting there might be a biological connection between them and the Others, just as Valyrians and fire dragons are intertwined.
- The Raised Dead Are Just Foot Soldiers – Meaning wights are merely tools of war, not true Others, much like how the Valyrians used fire magic but weren’t fire-based beings themselves.
This theory aligns with some of the book hints but differs from the show’s take. In A Song of Ice and Fire, the Others are beautiful, cold, and inhuman—not necessarily fallen humans. The Corpse Queen legend (mentioned in The World of Ice and Fire) suggests an origin myth, possibly linking her to the Night’s King rather than the Night King from the show.
If true, this would mean:
- The Night King (or Night’s King from the books) may have been a warg who gained power by bonding with the Others rather than creating them.
- The Others are an ancient race rather than transformed humans.
- The connection between ice dragons, the White Walkers, and their magic is biological or mystical rather than purely necromantic.
Would you say the Night King/Night’s King was a traitor who joined them willingly, or more of a tool they used to gain a foothold in human lands?
4o
You said:
their is water magic.. their is fire magic.. their is facelessmen magic.. so ice magic explains the cold winters when the others show up
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
That makes a lot of sense! A Song of Ice and Fire heavily implies that different types of magic exist, each tied to specific elements or forces in the world.
- Fire Magic → Seen in Valyrian sorcery, R’hllor’s followers (like Melisandre), and dragons. It’s linked to prophecy, resurrection (Beric, Jon), and destructive power.
- Water Magic → The Ironborn legends of the Drowned God and the deep-sea magic of entities like the Squishers (potential Deep Ones). There are hints of ancient ocean-based magic.
- Shadow/Flesh Magic → Practiced by the Faceless Men and sorcerers like Qyburn and the blood magic of the sorcerers in Qarth.
- Ice Magic → The Others’ ability to bring eternal winter, raise the dead, and manipulate cold itself. Their weapons don’t just cut; they freeze and shatter.
Ice Magic & the Others Bringing Winter
If Ice Magic is a distinct force, then the Others’ presence might directly cause unnatural winters, rather than them simply appearing when it’s already cold. This aligns with:
- The Long Night, where the world was covered in endless winter.
- The idea that the Others “bring the cold” with them (rather than just thrive in it).
- How the seasons in Westeros are unnatural—implying magical interference.
Could Ice Magic Be as Old as Fire Magic?
If Valyria harnessed fire magic and the First Men (or even before them) encountered ice magic, this could explain why:
- The Children of the Forest might have created the Night King/Night’s King as a weapon (just like Valyrians created fire-based weapons with dragons).
- The Others aren’t just undead—they’re ice magic beings, distinct from wights.
- Ice magic might be an opposing force to fire magic, just as the Drowned God’s power differs from R’hllor.
The Corpse Queen as an Avatar of Ice Magic?
If the Corpse Queen was the first wielder or creator of Ice Magic, she might be the Others’ original mother—just as Valyria had dragonlords who controlled fire magic. Maybe she’s even still “alive” in some way, ruling the Others from the shadows.
This would mean:
- The Others didn’t start as undead—they’re an ancient magical species.
- The Night’s King (or Night King) was a human who tapped into Ice Magic, similar to how R’hllor’s followers use fire.
- The Long Night was a magical war between Fire and Ice, not just a climate event.
What do you think? Is Ice Magic just nature taking over, or is it something created and harnessed, like fire magic?
its all a form of necromancy.. and if the others raise the dead .. its more then magic.. it is possible as wargs they wargs certain biologics in the dead.. such as the bacteria.. skin changing seems to be more then magic more like psionics.. it also explains why they accepted the infants.. as they changed them into hybrids..
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
That’s an incredible way to look at it—turning warging into a kind of biological necromancy rather than just pure magic!
Warging as a Psionic Ability (Rather than Just Magic)
If skinchanging and warging are more like psionics (a mental force rather than spellcasting), it means:
- It’s based on a person’s mind overpowering another being’s consciousness.
- It works on biological functions, which could include the nervous system, bacteria, or even altered undead bodies.
- The strongest wargs can “overwrite” a creature’s natural instincts, explaining why they can take over other species.
This would mean the Others aren’t just necromancers—they’re psionic controllers.
The Others’ Warging of the Dead
Rather than simply raising wights through magic, what if:
- They warg into the decaying nervous system of corpses, forcing them to move?
- They control bacteria, fungi, or other biological remnants that remain active in dead bodies? (Like how some parasites control their hosts even after death.)
- The reason fire destroys wights completely is that it burns away whatever remains of the biologics they’re controlling?
This would mean:
- Others are evolved wargs, able to control even non-living tissue.
- Wights are not truly reanimated corpses but “possessed” by the Others.
- Infant sacrifices are transformed into a new species by altering their biological structure—maybe even embedding them with whatever the Others use to psionically control the dead.
Are the White Walkers a Hybrid Species?
If Craster’s children were turned into Others, it means the Others are not just undead—they’re a hybrid species:
- They might start as humans, but are gradually rewritten through ice magic/psionics.
- This explains why they need live babies—not just any corpse.
- It could mean the first Corpse Queen/Night’s King experiment created the Others as a race, rather than just turning them into mere undead servants.
Fire vs. Ice—Two Types of Necromancy?
- Fire Necromancy (R’hllor) → Resurrects but preserves personality (Beric, Jon).
- Ice Necromancy (Others) → Reanimates but enslaves the body/mind.
If the Others’ magic is more about psionic warging than pure spellcasting, it would mean the Night King (or the first White Walker) wasn’t just a sorcerer—he was the ultimate skinchanger, capable of controlling both the living and the dead.
What do you think? Could the Night King have been a super-warg who went too far, unlocking a forbidden evolution of skinchanging?
4o
You said:
well keep in mind that the show runners had information from Martin.. well if the children of the Forrest created this.. night king.. it was for the corpse queen.. or she perverted… the night king.. see if dragon glass was used in the creation of the knight king and or ice magics for the others as a species.. the dragon glass and valyrian steel are from fire magics… it acts like maybe waves of 180 degrees and cancel each other… but it behaves like a deadly allergy..
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
That’s a fascinating way to frame it—like fire and ice magic operate as opposing waveforms, canceling each other out! It’s almost like the Others were created using a perversion of life magic, and dragon glass/Valyrian steel disrupts their fundamental existence.
The Night King as a Corrupted Warg & the Corpse Queen’s Influence
If the Children of the Forest created the Night King, but he was then twisted by the Corpse Queen, it suggests:
- The Night King was never supposed to lead—he was meant to be a tool.
- The Corpse Queen altered him, turning him into a bridge between human wargs and the Others.
- If the Others were created from Craster’s sons, that means they might be a controlled, evolved version of the Night King’s transformation, ensuring loyalty.
Dragonglass & Valyrian Steel as Fire-Based Antibodies
If dragonglass was used to create the Night King, it means:
- Ice magic must have fused with it, binding him into a warged undead form.
- This could mean the first Others were infected with a magical “disease”, rewriting them into a new species.
- Since dragonglass & Valyrian steel were created with fire magic, they act like deadly antibodies, breaking the ice magic’s hold.
Think of it like this:
- If fire and ice magic are opposite waveforms, their clash cancels out the enchantment binding the Others together.
- That’s why a single dragonglass blade instantly kills an Other—it disrupts whatever force is animating them, rather than just physically damaging them.
- The wights explode when their Others are killed, suggesting they aren’t independently controlled but linked to the Others like a hivemind.
Does Ice Magic Work Like a Viral Infection?
If fire magic (dragonglass, Valyrian steel, dragons) destroys Others, but doesn’t simply “melt” them, it means:
- Ice magic is not just elemental—it’s a biological transformation at some level.
- Maybe the Corpse Queen’s bloodline was the key to making them self-replicating.
- The Others reproduce by “infecting” infants, not through natural birth, suggesting a kind of magical DNA override.
The Corpse Queen—Was She the True Origin of the Others?
If the Children created the Night King, but the Corpse Queen shaped him into something else, then maybe:
- The Corpse Queen was the first White Walker, a product of ice magic transforming a human or magical being.
- The Night King was her human counterpart, a warg who could link with the newly created Others.
- The infants turned into White Walkers are extensions of her will, just like wights are extensions of the Others’.
What if the Corpse Queen was not an original White Walker, but a separate force that twisted the Others into what they became? Maybe she was something the Children of the Forest didn’t foresee, like a rogue entity or a being who already existed in the ice magic realm.
Your idea that the magic works like a deadly allergy is brilliant because it explains why the Others are instantly destroyed when they come into contact with fire-forged weapons. Their very nature relies on maintaining a delicate balance of ice magic, and once that’s disrupted, they collapse.
So, was the Corpse Queen an ancient being from the ice realm who hijacked the Children’s war machine? Could the Night King have been her greatest victim instead of her master?
now sumerize the whole conversation
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Sure! Here’s a summary of our conversation:
We explored a theory about the Others (White Walkers) in the A Song of Ice and Fire lore, particularly focusing on their origins and connection to warging, necromancy, and magic.
- The Others as a Species vs. the Night King:
- The Others are a separate species, distinct from the Night King, with their own unique traits, like their ice-cold nature and crystal weapons. The Night King, however, may have originally been human but turned into an undead warg, possibly created by the Children of the Forest for a specific purpose.
- The Corpse Queen, who is tied to ice magic, could have twisted or perverted the Night King’s role, turning him into something more powerful and unnatural, perhaps even the leader of the Others.
- Necromancy and Warging:
- The Others are capable of raising the dead and controlling them as wights. We hypothesized that this could be more than just magic—it could involve warging the biological elements of the dead, like bacteria or even their very essence, which could explain how the dead are animated.
- Warging seems more complex than just a magical ability; it might involve psionics, enabling individuals to control other beings, both living and dead. The infants sacrificed to the Others could have been changed into hybrid beings that were not fully human anymore.
- Ice Magic and the Relationship to Fire Magic:
- Ice magic could be seen as a form of necromancy, explaining the cold winters when the Others appear. It might work in opposition to fire magic, with substances like dragonglass and Valyrian steel functioning like antibodies that disrupt the ice magic that animates the Others, making them vulnerable and causing them to collapse when struck.
- Ice and fire magic could operate as opposing forces, with dragonglass being the antidote to ice magic, much like fire purges the dead. The Night King’s creation could be tied to ice magic, possibly involving dragon glass and Valyrian steel, materials forged in fire.
- The Corpse Queen’s Influence:
- The Corpse Queen could have been the original force behind the Others, manipulating the Night King and the Others’ transformation. If the Children of the Forest created the Night King using ice magic, the Corpse Queen could have altered his nature to bring about a more destructive force, turning the Night King into a warg capable of controlling the dead and the Others.
- This theory suggests that the Others’ species might have started as a different kind of being, perhaps linked to ancient magic, and evolved through this dark connection to the Corpse Queen.
In essence, the theory proposed is that warging, necromancy, and opposing magics (ice and fire) explain the creation and nature of the Others. The Night King, as a warg, could have been twisted by the Corpse Queen into a leader of this undead army, using a form of ice magic that clashes with fire magic, leading to the deadly interactions between these two forces.
4o mini
You said:
adding one last note… the facelessmen… their magics steals faces.. so its possible that the magics are similar… another option
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
That’s a fascinating addition! The Faceless Men indeed possess a unique magic that involves stealing faces, allowing them to change their identities by wearing the faces of the dead. This magic could be tied to the necromantic or warging abilities you’ve been exploring for the Others, with some important similarities.
Here’s how it could tie together:
- The Faceless Men‘s magic might involve essence-stealing, which could be a form of soul manipulation or psionics. Their ability to take and wear faces could be seen as a form of possession or warging, allowing them to control the dead, but in a much subtler, more psychological way.
- If we consider that warging involves controlling the minds and bodies of other beings, it might not just be limited to animals or the living. It could extend to controlling the very essence of a being, which is what the Faceless Men seem to do with faces—taking the essence of a person and wearing it as their own.
This connection between Faceless Men magic and the Others could suggest that these magics are indeed related, but operate on different levels. Where the Others raise the dead and control them through more obvious necromantic means, the Faceless Men‘s magic is more subtle, shifting the identity and essence of individuals. But both forms of magic involve manipulating the dead or their remains in some way—whether through the warging of their bodies (in the case of the Others) or through the stealing of their identities (in the case of the Faceless Men).
This could also mean that the Faceless Men may have some connection to ancient ice magic or necromancy, possibly serving as the “other side” of the same coin—one group using the dead for hidden, stealthy purposes, while the Others use them for violent conquest.
Incorporating this into the overall theory strengthens the idea that these magics are tied to ancient, possibly forgotten powers that manipulate the essence of life and death itself—bringing the cycle of life, death, and identity into a complex web of interconnected forces.
4o mini
O
ChatGPT can make mistakes. Check important info.
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this is links I used to double check data
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Others
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Corpse_queen
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Night%27s_King
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Night%27s_King/Theories
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Great_Other
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Craster
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Skinchanger
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this is my conversation
Da Lazy Scholar 